Robin Doenicke is the founder and CEO of Zensho Agency, a multinational consultancy and one of Japan’s most highly awarded and innovative recruitment firms. “Zensho,” which means “whole life,” reflects Robin’s belief that life should be lived holistically and with purpose, passion, and presence. He recognizes that connections can change lives, and his life mission is to help other people fulfill their life missions. Robin is also a martial artist, a breathwork and mindfulness teacher, and an executive coach who’s passionate about transforming the lives of the clients he serves. He’s lived in Japan for over 25 years.
Recently, our own like-minded Michael Neudendorff had the opportunity to talk with Robin about the Zensho agency and Robin’s distinctive outlook on executive coaching.
Michael Neuendorff: I’m just going to jump right into it and ask you: where does executive coaching fit into your world?
Robin Doenicke: Good question. As you know, I’ve been running a recruitment firm in Japan for the last 25 years, and throughout that time, coaching kind of crept into my role as the company CEO. We’ve got 30 professional recruiters and our business model is a little different from the traditional recruitment firm in that all of our recruiters are independent contractors who essentially run their own businesses using our platform.
I discovered quite early on that trying to get 30 very dominant, assertive people all on board and in line, and all embracing our business culture, can be challenging at times. The expression “herding cats” comes to mind. But I found that the more I was able to bring a coaching approach to my people and to my role, the more effective I was in terms of getting the kind of results that made the entire organization stronger.
And then a few years ago, I decided, “Well, maybe it’s time to actually get some formal training in this area of coaching.” I have you to thank for being one of my first instructors in the coaching methodology scheme of things, which was very helpful. So, in addition to actually running this recruitment firm, I’m also an executive coach. I import executive coaching into my recruitment work with some of the senior candidates we work with. Coaching is also important when we introduce a new senior executive to a hiring company. During that executive’s first 90 days on the job we want to ensure that they onboarded in the most effective manner. I also coach people totally separate from my recruitment work.
Michael Neuendorff: I understand that you’re coaching inside of Zensho and outside with your own clients as well. So, how have you distinguished your style of coaching from other executive coaches?
Robin Doenicke: I’m probably not your typical traditional executive coach. Something that’s been really important to me personally over the last 20 years are matters regarding mindfulness, meditation, and breathwork. Five years ago, anyone talking about breathwork was probably seen as a bit on the fringe, but it’s a lot more mainstream now.
Seeing how that all relates to one’s narrative: the stories that we tell ourselves about who we are, about our environment, about just life and the events that happen around us, I found remarkably effective in helping clients address their core issues, getting to the crux of the issues really concerning them.
Those issues often are: “I want to work more on my delegation skills” or “I want to improve my team leadership skills or refine my management style.” Those are the things that need to be addressed. But what I found is that often we need to first take a step back. We need to go a bit deeper and really start to look at how people see themselves, how they’re viewing the world. And it’s not simply looking at issues and saying “do this or do that,” it’s really been about focusing on the causes. How did you get to this position? How did you arrive at this perspective, this world view?
I found the more I can do that, the more I can be radically present with the people I’m coaching. There are some remarkable, wonderful things that can arise in those sessions that really trigger genuine, lasting growth.
Michael Neuendorff: Please tell me a little bit more about that by describing how you’ve introduced your martial arts training or meditation in mindfulness to the betterment of a client.
Robin Doenicke: As you know, I’m a student of martial arts. That was the reason I originally came to Japan, to study martial arts. The more time you spend in martial arts, the more you come to realize that it goes way beyond just learning how to punch and kick or defend yourself. The physical part is just a vehicle for tapping into the much deeper essence and purpose of what the martial arts are about.
I found this wonderful synergy between the principles of martial arts and the principles of mindfulness, the principles of business, the principles of entrepreneurship, and the principles of life. So, for me, martial arts are a wonderful way to bring myself back to my body and bring myself back to the here and now. When you’re training, the teachers are always asking you to stop thinking about what the opponent might do or what you might do if this happens or that happens. In your mind you want to stay in the present.
Martial arts are a wonderful modality for bringing people back to their bodies. You know, during those two hours in the dojo, the training gym, all the problems you have and the worries you have about tomorrow, or the issues you’re dealing with in the office or at home can be put aside. And you find that after martial arts training, you’re a lot more refreshed, a lot more present in your mind and your body.
So, it’s through this approach that I can help people see their situation more clearly. As an example, I had a client come into my office a couple of weeks ago and he was running late and was huffing and puffing upon arrival at my office. You could tell he’d had a tough day and he wanted to get straight into our coaching session. But before we got started, I had him take a few minutes to just breathe. I wasn’t trying to do a breath work session or anything like that, just take a few minutes to breathe and get centered. That led to this wonderful moment where you see this shift, when he was able to relax and let go. We then went on to have a much more productive session.
Michael Neuendorff: That is such a good example, Robin. I think some executive coaches get caught up in the idea that we should just go right to the problem instead of taking a step back, and maybe “grounding” the client first and preparing the coaching space. That’s one of the prime coaching competencies: preparing the coaching space and making a space available. It sounds like you did exactly that by taking your client through some breathing exercises first, not as a basis for the whole session, but to help him get calm, get focused, and maybe step away from the hectic nature of his day. You got him to focus on the present and the conversation with you.
Robin Doenicke: Something I’ve come to believe very, very passionately is that everything you need in a coaching session is available in the space of the here and now. Some coaches might feel that coaching is about getting the information out and doing the homework, the work you do afterward a session. But for me, I found that that growth should happen and can happen in the sessions themselves.
So, that’s quite liberating as a coach because you realize it’s not about arming yourself with various tools like: “I’ve got to come up with some great questions and make sure I sound like a great coach.” It’s about being radically present. It’s about “holding the space.” It’s about trusting that what needs to emerge can happen in that field, in that space, the here and now.
Michael Neuendorff: You’ve coached leaders in Japan and Australia. Do you see any differences in the way leaders think and operate in the two countries?
Robin Doenicke: That’s an interesting one. I think there’s no fixed stereotype: the Japanese are like this and the non-Japanese are like that. But, having said that, there are some cultural differences. Japanese people tend to be a bit more reserved and the approach you as a coach takes with a Japanese executive is very, very important.
Trust is incredibly important. I think a Japanese executive needs to know that it’s OK to be vulnerable. It’s OK to open up. It’s OK to share something about yourself or about your team or about your company if that’s what’s necessary for you to move forward. With non-Japanese executives, I often find it’s more about conditioning. They’re more used to speaking about what’s on their mind and sharing their thoughts and opinions. With a Japanese person it can be a bit more of a challenge to bring things out into the open.
Maybe I’m being slightly stereotypical here, but with the traditional Japanese cultural way of being, you have to spend more time creating that safe space, developing that trust. And I think it often takes longer when coaching a Japanese executive versus a Western business leader.
I would say that coaching is still rather new in Japan. It’s something that hasn’t been as readily embraced as elsewhere because, for many Japanese, having a coach feels like you’re failing in some way. It can be seen as punishment when your boss recommends or suggests you speak to a coach. So, as I coach in Japan, I have to address those sorts of concerns early on. And that’s why I think the kind of approach I’ve been using is really good because it allows the client not to have to go straight into what’s “wrong.” It allows them to settle into the space. So many of the issues that I hear from Japanese clients stem from the environments they’re in.
There’s an old expression that you can’t take a changed person and put them back in an unchanged environment because the environment will always win. And to some degree, I think that’s quite true. We always have to look at the issue that someone might be raising in the much broader context of not just their own story and narrative, but that larger narrative of the organization or the team. And you can go beyond that and consider the culture and the society that they’re part of as well. That becomes a very effective approach, particularly with a group of people or a nationality and a culture that’s very much conscious of how the individual should fit in.
Often I’ll hear Japanese people saying: “You know, we’re Japanese.” They speak very collectively as they’re very conscious of fitting in. They like to say: “The nail that sticks out will be hammered down.” It’s a very common expression in Japan and a powerful message transcending one’s individual story.
Michael Neuendorff: That really helps us to understand that as a global coach, you do have to understand people’s cultures and values and how their societies operate in order to fit within those existing structures, right?
Robin Doenicke: Absolutely. You can’t ignore that. I’ll give you an example. Suppose 29 women in the West all wearing black dresses are interviewing for a job and one woman shows up for the interview wearing a red dress. She stands out and everyone remembers her as the woman in the red dress. If that happens in Japan, that woman in the red dress would raise uncomplimentary questions like: “Why are you wearing a red dress? Why are you trying to be different? Why are you trying to stand out? There’s a lot of that happening in work I do with people in Japan, and elsewhere.
Michael Neuendorff: So, coming back to the idea of coaching somebody. How do you decide, Robin, if someone is coachable?
Robin Doenicke: I certainly prefer to work with people who are coming on their own volition, when the person wants to be coached and sees the value of that and really wants to make changes. I think an important trait for the coachee to have is courage. Do they have the courage and the humility and the self-discipline to go through the coaching process? If any of those three traits are missing, it’s probably going to be a failed initiative because they’ve got to be willing to look at themselves in the mirror. They’ve got to be willing to listen to the story they tell about themselves or the situation they’re in, or the people that they have an issue with, or whatever else, and try to step out of their story and see how it could be viewed from other perspectives.
That can be painful. That can be very, very uncomfortable, very, very challenging and confronting. And that’s why courage, I think, is really important. And of course, you need the discipline to just go through the process. It’s like getting up at 5:30 AM when it’s cold and rainy and going to the gym to train. It’s not fun but you discipline yourself to go because you know there’s growth to be found at the end of that tunnel. And as we know, growth is generally on the other side of the things that we fear. If we can go through that door, some good things usually await us.
Michael Neuendorff: How about client attraction? Have you found what works to attract clients to you?
Robin Doenicke: It may sound overly simplified, but doing a great job, over delivering, giving great service. All of my coaching clients have come through word of mouth and hopefully that means satisfied clients.
I think what’s been really important when I meet someone for the first time is not trying to hard sell them on coaching. If someone is mentioning an issue or challenge that they’re dealing with, I’ll give them some advice and suggestions. I’ll talk with the person to give them a feeling for what it’s like to work with me as a coach. And then, when they eventually discover that I’m a coach, they’ll get back in touch with me and say: “Oh, I heard you’re a coach and I’d like to talk with you further about what we were discussing at the party the other night,” or something like that.
I like giving people an experience of what it’s like to work with me and how I listen to them and how I don’t offer advice or solutions that weren’t asked for. I think we’re all guilty at times of giving advice and solutions about things we probably know very little about. So, my best strategy for building clientele is to give the prospect an experience of what it’s like to work with me. That’s been my best calling card and my best advertisement.
Michael Neuendorff: I could see how that would work, and that actually caused me to think back to something you had said about “ radical presence.” When we encounter someone with radical presence, I think we feel different. We feel that we’re having a different kind of conversation with a different kind of person because so many people aren’t radically present. They’re radically not present or partially present and that seems to be the norm in many situations. So I’m guessing that you’re giving off a vibe also of radical presence.
Robin Doenicke: When you’re in the present, you step out of your mind for a moment. The mind is a wonderful tool. We need it when we’re planning a holiday, planning a business, doing this, doing that. But when you’re totally present and we hear things like “the flow state” and “the zone,” there’s just this beautiful presence based on the flow of everything that’s here and now.
I have found in those moments of presence we’re not going into the past and conditioning and reacting to the story of what’s happened. We’re also not going into the future and we’re not projecting into what could happen with our fears and anxieties. We’re here and now, and when you’re present, you’re able to respond rather than react.
We react from our stories. We react from our conditioning. But when we’re present, we can put that aside, we can transcend that, at least for that moment, and respond. And we respond much more spontaneously, much more appropriately, much more responsibly. When we’re able to just respond, that’s much more powerful than reacting to what was or what could be.
Michael Neuendorff: Thank you for that further explanation of what radical presence looks and feels like. That’s very helpful to hear. I have one final question to ask Robin, and it’s really more about your coaching practice as a whole. Do you plan to make any changes to your coaching practice in 2022? And, if so, what might that look like?
Robin Doenicke: My coaching practice is increasing, which is nice, I think this is definitely what I was born to do and what I love doing. I mean, ever since I’ve been a child, I’ve been fascinated by discovering the “why” behind things. I discovered a talk by Simon Sinek recently, and he said, “Your ‘why’ actually develops or kind of falls into place in your early years, like in your teenage years. The way you express it changes throughout your life.” And I thought about that and I reflected back on my life and I thought: “Yeah, actually, my ‘why’ has been the same as early as I can remember.”
My coaching is very much focused on helping people “fulfill their potential and wake up” to just how truly powerful and how much potential they have. And that’s a constant for me, whether it’s through my vocation, my work as a coach or business leader, or even simply as a friend. I’ve seen so much value in the mindfulness component, the meditation component, that I feel it’s such a powerful thing to bring to any engagement.
If someone’s looking for a standard conversation, executive search, engagement, I’m probably not going to be the right person for them. But if they’re willing to do all this stuff I’m talking about and they have that courage, that discipline, that humility, and are willing to explore some of those things, then that’s a coaching engagement I could really get excited about.
I get excited because I can see so much growth, so much change in the client. The stories I get back from business leaders, from parents, from athletes, even from children, they all see the value of really examining themselves, really going in.
You know, when an archer pulls back on the bow and releases it, the arrow shoots forward. If you don’t make the effort to pull back the bow, the arrow just falls down when you let go. So you have to make that effort. And it’s the same with building a building. You dig down to build the foundation before you start building up. And I think for the last several hundred years, we, as a society, have been running this modality of outward acquisition of everything that’s external to ourselves. And we’ve seen that that’s run its course. I think we’ve been looking at an outside fix for an inside job. We need to take a moment to focus on “being” as an accomplishment unto itself. And I think the more we can just focus on just being, it allows us to get to that present state. It allows us to transcend our story and to then effectively move out into the world and do what we need to do in all the roles that we hold.
Michael Neuendorff: Wow. And I’m really impressed and so touched and moved by that because I have practiced mindfulness and meditation for years. I had heard for so long that this was the secret of many successful people and I kept thinking, “I should do this if so many people who are successful preach the value of it and they do it, then I should do it too.” And I’ve done that, but I’ve primarily kept it to myself. This idea of actually bringing it to your clients is wonderful, and it really makes me think deeply about how I should incorporate mindfulness in my coaching as you’ve beautifully done in yours, with such remarkable results. Well, thank you very much, Robin. This has been as interesting an interview as I knew it would be. The insight you shared with us today is really valuable. Thank you so much.
Robin Doenicke: I really enjoyed it Michael. Thanks for giving me this opportunity.
You can view the video version of this interview by clicking here.
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